[Discussion] VeGrape- No more free roaming Grape

Hello all.

This post is to spur discussion on both emissions and prizes being given out in vegrape or a linearly unlocking grape token.

At the moment, emissions and prizes being given out are an inflation of the current circulating supply. Some participants have achieved their membership status and thus market sell any further grape acquired in the current liquid market.

There are a few mechanics at work here and the post isn’t to talk about all of them, but rather to ask you if the grape core team/dao have considered transitioning all prizes and emissions to a Vegrape?.

A few pros
-Vegrape is distributed to those who actually want to hold the token long term
-These people have a larger weighting in the grape dao votes
-Experimenting with the weight guage as currently we have a 1 grape 1 vote going on.

Cons
-People will dislike because they cannot realize their immediate capital through selling grape
-Do we have the Tech/Dev team available to develop+ implement this?
-Ve tokenomics have a mixed track record and not sure of community reaction.
-IF we proceed to vegrape, we can no longer give out standard grape.

Might this might interfere with the current strategy of socean and the 30d PoL?

There’s a lot more I can write about this, but really who wants to read 2 pages of subtopics.
Anyone have opinions?

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I really had hoped for this discussion and I wanted to wait until we’ve sorted things out that we’re currently on, but since you’re posting now, I can add something to the discussion.
It’s still a rough draft and it’s going a different route than your suggestion but I think the root cause for our ideas is the same or at least similar. Since it’s still WIP and I focused on different topics, I’ll add my detailed thoughts later and just post this here:

I’d love to see some more of our big-brain members like @tmnxeq (and researchers in general) chime in, as I feel that I’m way out of my depths here and you guys evaluated so many projects that I think your input would be really valuable.

The 2 questions I asked myself were:
– how can we achieve that people recognize $GRAPE as a community token that serves its intended function?
– how can we factor in the open market?

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Thanks for kicking this off!

Im 100% in support of locked governance grape. Billy and I are looking into how to set it up but we dont have a timeline right now. The priority will be to get you and the DAO this clarity by Sunday.

This is the BEST time to be discussing the intricacies and the subtopics IMO because we need to do it anyway

Ill think more on some potential issues and solutions for the ideas you brought up like Socean

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Great initiative, I fully support locked grape emissions

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Damn man, you’ve been dwelling on this for a while by the looks of your flowchart.
I understand we have a whole lot of other stuff happening, so i thought I’d just post it.
It’s unlikely we’ll be able to put any of it in development so soon anyway.

So yes, input from some of the other big brains would be invaluable as we discuss the complex matrix of tokenomic flow.
In regards to your 2 questions;

  1. This is hard because people outside of grape ( or people in who dont participate) do not get the full view of grape itself and so will always have misconceptions about its function, one way is just constant and constant education of the wider community. If you’re talking more on the tokenomic side, i think grape has already achieved its intended function of a ‘community token’. the problem i feel is people recognising ( or not) this community as net beneficial to them or not, and so choose to participate or not. We are now in the stage of improving this community token.

  2. for open markets, i hate to say it but i dont actually think we can control the open markets or hope to sway it. “an open market is characterized by the absence of tariffs, taxes,”… when i read this it makes me feel like our emissions and prizes are a silent tax.

lets get dean to confirm how t set it up by sunday a he says

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I see this as a potential to slow sell pressure and could work at pulling on the breaks but IMO more effort needs to be put into the game theory for the grape token.
When it comes to utility tokens and emissions the tokens are always destined to continue to head toward zero unless you can continually create value not to sell the token rewards.
Right now there isn’t really anything to “spend” your tokens on and no real need to hoard tokens either as you would only be speculating on a large number of new members entering the discord to possibly take supply out of the market.
We need to manage in flows and outflows by creating the need for GRAPE to be used or even wanted to be used.
The NFT idea is great imo as the NFT could give access to the GRAPE ecosystem but everything in the ecosystem will cost GRAPE to use.
You want WL tokens? that costs some GRAPE, you want to use the market place? That costs some GRAPE, you want access to the weekly Alpha? That costs some GRAPE.
Spent GRAPE could either be burnt or sent back to the treasury or even a % split between burning and treasury but this will significantly reduce sell pressure on the token and with enough utility or even the quality of the utility and access and some clever accounting on prices could even see buy pressure on the GRAPE token.

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But I guess the biggest take from this is, is the GRAPE tokens primary function a governance token, a utility token or a mix of both and the governance is one of the utilities

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Yes. It is a mix of both and I think we can push this idea further.
Like you said the first step is to slow sell pressure and then we can go deep into the game theory. Dean made a great comment to also look at USDC for Roles Rewards.

And here I think we can pull something together, so if for the majority of rewards we give out USDC and not GRAPE then sell pressure weakens. When we also offer a reason to keep GRAPE e.g. ways to spend GRAPE then we are naturally building an ecosystem.
Main hangup is that to reward members with USDC and not sell GRAPE for USDC we need revenue. With revenue we can pay people what they are worth and eliminate sell pressure, wouldn’t that be what we all want?
Really putting the pedal to the metal supercharging this DAO, feeling the wind in our hair while blazing along the highways of Solana City, that would be great.

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