Setting a new proposal threshold for Realms

Good time to bring this up and change the current threshold

If you navigate to Realms, you can see any DAOs requirement to make a proposal. Ours is currently set to a ridiculously high number (72,500,000) and I think its time to lower it

I looked at FWB/Nouns/Mango to come up with a good range of options. ALL OF THIS INFORMATION IS OPENSOURCE AND AVAILABLE TO EVERYONE IN THE WORLD.

FWB: 0.0125% circulating required. 129 members have this amount out of 6300 members. 150 regular voters
Nouns: 0.5% of circulating required. 30 members have this amount out of 243 members. 20 regular voters
Mango: 0.002% of circulating required. 9 members have this amount out of 949 members. 9 regular voters

For Grape – 87% of circulating required. 0 members have this amount out of 577 members. 80 regular voters

(I used DeepDAO for the member counts – possibly wrong but very directional)

If we adopted the above, thresholds would be

0.002% = 1,650 Grape = 62 voting members have this
0.0125%= 10,312.5 Grape = 58 voting members have this
0.5%=412,500 Grape = 0 voting members have this

The above are facts

Now time for some opinion: Our Gorilla amount of 23,600 Grape should be the ABSOLUTE MINIMUM.

That would make 55 voting members eligible to make proposals today

Looking at distribution and activity, my belief is 200,000 is our ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM

That would make 5 voting members eligible to make proposals today

So the proposed range would be 0.028%-0.25%.

My opinion is “the higher the better” at this point in time and would support a 0.25% circulating supply requirement to make a proposal

I think the following variables matter the most

What percentage of members will be able to make a proposal
What percentage of circulating supply is that threshold
What percentage of active voters are able to make a proposal

Hope this is directional enough to have some good discussion! More than happy to plan a twitter spaces/discord talk to go over how i got these numbers and my thoughts on these.

This is a great resource to understand more about Grape’s voting distribution and ofcourse REALMS as always

https://deepdao.io/organization/1d3f7bff-6537-4640-9f8a-877254e1d33b/members

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This lead me just to want to confirm what our process is on proposals and voting, and where we see it going.

My understanding of the current process is that proposals are made in Discource, which after some input then go to a discourse vote which is effectively a means to seek aggrement in principal for a wider Realms vote; with the discourse vote usual also guiding the options that are set for Realms voting.

Is the intent here to move proposals from Discourse to Realms. If so, I beleive the minimum requirement to be part of the DAO is Gorilla membership? This to me should dictate the minumum proposal threshold to enpower DAO members and also hopefully encourage making proposals, as otherwise higher thresholds limiting the number of people who can set proposals seems to go against some of the discussion we’ve had about wanting to see more proposals from other DAO members.

I’d also just want to check voting thresholds/ ability to raise a vote is seperate?

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I love seeing this breakdown and explanation. Since I’m new(ish) to grape curious how many times if before at all the threshold has been changed? I’m particularly interested in how to think about these numbers as I navigate coaching setting up threshold for the Sanctuary and it’s own subDAO’s

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I fully agree with 0.25%. It is time to start using $GRAPE for one of the reasons it was founded in the first place.
Community (especially members of the workforce) has had enough time & chances during the past 6 months to accumulate and I am confident that raising the stakes even more in Realms voting will only lead to an improvement in our processes, plus a better demonstration of commitment.

Also, AFAIK @Angered_Bees I believe this is the first time threshold is in discussion to be raised.

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I like the amount of research put into providing the stats. I generally think the proposed % is okay. Personally I don’t see myself making proposals without seeking advice from other engaged members. Also, raising the bar means not every Tom, Dick, and Harry would come up with a proposal. It saves everyone’s time.

Keeping the bar high means extra investment in the project for people who want to make proposals. Discourages clowns and shows dedication of people who go that extra length.

Why does going that extra length show dedication, is being class A not enough to prove that?? because many people got their class A membership through airdrop and didn’t have to do anything else after that to qualify making proposals.

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This discussion is more about the decentralization of our proposal processes. Today, only 3 people with a permissioned council token process can introduce the on-chain proposals

With this move towards a lower threshold, it becomes truly decentralized. Our mission should be to be the first completely true DAO – this is a major step towards that

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I support the higher end of the range. I would go slightly higher at 250k Grape for a proposal as I would like to increase gorilla membership to 200k $GRAPE. People had plenty of time to accumulate voting power!

I would even add a secret discord role for anyone having 1m $GRAPE.

I think any move will be temporary as we will eventually (i hope) use the governance locker that Mango introduced that will add further weight to the voting power if locked. So proposal requirement will be an evolving number!

TL;DR:

Gorilla: 200k Grape
Proposal: 250k Grape
Secret Role: 1m Grape

LFG!

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I am not sure about the downside of putting the limit at Gorilla level.

From an ideological standpoint I would prefer it to be set at a low level so many people can participate. But I am unaware of the risks.

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I’d be very against raising Gorilla membership thresholds to 200K $Grape.

While its true people who have been active in the community for many several months will have had the time to accumulate that amount of $Grape, what about attracting new DAO members?

I thought one of Grape’s key messages was Inclusivness not Exclusivness. Its often a pride point that Grape has one of, if not the largest DAO’s on realms by number of members; again rasing Gorilla threshold seems very against this point.

if there’s a real desire to make a higher threshold I’d advocate making a higher tier instead - A+ or S tier and call them Silver Backs or something and have extra benifits, but don’t raise Gorilla membership threshold to 200K $Grape.

Secret Role: 1m Grape :thinking: google informs me Gigantopithecus is the largest Ape that ever lived, doesn’t have a great ring to it though.

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